"當代" 有無攝影同好?

本文由 掌門人2003-01-05 發表於 "網友影片、Youtube 轉貼" 討論區

  1. monk

    monk Moderator

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    其實沒有好景與敏銳的取景,再好的相機也拍不出好作品。就像初學者拿把customshop。我用D70 專拍女兒也大抵是如此。其實D70 與消費機明顯的差異是反應快,功能完整與鏡頭搭配多。

    傳聞 Olympus E1 在階調上有不錯的表現,是比較接近銀鹽的感覺。可惜搭配鏡頭較少。
    Nikon D70 算是較划算的選擇,市面上有一堆鏡頭群可選。
    Canon 20D,最新機種,也可搭一堆鏡頭群,看他的規格是衝著D70 來的。D70 明顯不敵。

    Leica Digilux 規格明顯落後上述3 部,但他定位還是在消費型,有錄影功能與無法換鏡頭即是,所以不能比較。又,錄影功能還在 320x240 ,我覺得這種價位有點不划算。而且看review 他的macro 並不是很好。除非你很喜歡他的階調與色彩表現,這是非常主觀的。Leica 一直是玩家的夢幻機種,定焦鏡的散景與暗部階調表現口碑很好。不過digilux 是配變焦鏡,不知表現是否在水準以上?

    目前數位在階調上與傳統底片還是有些距離,看來技術還不成熟。如同line6 產品之於real tube,只是用家圖個方便而已。

    Shawn 不是有富士6MB 的相機嗎?這部要拍three ladies 應該夠了。Paul 的相片很有味道,他利用的現場光與後製應該是主要技巧所在。真要敗下去,Canon與Nikon 這兩個牌子可參考一下,二手市場也比較熱絡。
     
  2. Shawn

    Shawn Moderator

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    monk哥,

    我那台Fuji是純種"消費機", 連shutter都沒的調, 更別提光圈...我連我家的豬都拍不好(太會亂動了), 所以才想換台正經點的機器, 最好是可以搭配不同鏡頭的數位(傳統相機我比較愛, 但是實在太懶)...加上這台所謂的"六萬畫素"其實是enhanced之後的成果, 實際上也只有2M的樣子...

    我對攝影是門外漢, 不過對美術方面的東西還好, 還算清楚知道自己要的是什麼. 所以還得多做功課...

    我其實只對靜物/人物極少數街景有興趣, 所以或許要求也不需太多?

    不知是最近工作太忙還是怎麼的, 赫然驚覺身邊事物實在太缺乏美感, 以至於有此一衝動, 想留住身邊美的點點滴滴...

    Paul桑,

    3 Q for your encouraging words!

    Here's what I found on Leica forum regarding D2's 'lack of flexibility':

    "The above mag has reviewed the D2 and completly missed the point of this super little camera. They complain of a lack of flexiblity because the lens is not interchangable completely ignoring the fact that the fitted lens of 28 to 80mm is near the classic Leica 35mm and 90mm rangefinder lenses and that as it's a fixed lens there are no dust problems such as dSLR's suffer. They also complain there are no accessories again missing the whole reasoning behind the D2."

    Man. That certainly got me confused.
     
  3. Shawn

    Shawn Moderator

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    在經過各位長時間薰陶以及前些日子Paul 桑的photo album衝擊下, 我終於還是想買一台正經點的相機. 除了上面monk哥推薦的Canon外, 我也在考慮是否老牌Leica的 Digilux 2 也會是不錯的選擇? monk哥或各位有建議?

    我最喜歡的, 聽起來或許好笑, 第一是它的flash (ceiling bounced option), 第二是它的retro look(讓我很想用它), 第三大概就是因為我多少有點迷信名牌. 除此之外, 網站上的sample pictures倒是不會讓我太過傾倒, 可能是因為reviewer儘拍些倫敦我熟到不能再熟的東西...不過, 好貴啊? 同樣的價錢買別款好像還能搭配很多其他東西? 而且, 鏡頭是fixed的???

    算了...看看就好吧?

    可以的話, 我希望我能拍出, 類似Paul 桑拍他的 three ladies那樣的東西, 讓我想起前陣子的法國片"Amelie"...呵呵. 不知有沒那麼一天就是了...來, 再連一下

    http://www.rickbeat.com/gallery/paulyan/paulyan.htm

    any suggestions, guys?
     
  4. Paul_Yan

    Paul_Yan New Member

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    Shawn,

    I really don't know a thing about digital cameras. My only experience with a digital camera was the couple of times I pressed the shutter release button on my friend's Nikon D70 to photograph my Rickenbacker strapped Nikon FM. So take my words with some grain of salt.

    I quite agree with Monk on the shortcomings of the Digilux2.

    From what I read, the D2 looks like a super high quality electric guitar with excellent wood, pickups and finish but lacks a tremolo bridge, coil tapping and active tone shaping features. It sounds real sweet but doesn't permit you to pull out gun slinger stunts like what Vai does. However, the fixed lens' advantage of dust shielding is quite true.

    The designers and engineers at Leica obviously think the zoomable 28-80mm lens, with its macro function, can handle all photographic situations. My stupid (?) question is: What if I want the camera to do telescopic photography which requires a lens of more than 300mm focal length? Not so flexible, indeed.

    To add insult to the wound, it's too highly priced, IMHO.

    *Please simply call me Paul. That would make me look better/younger, heheh.
     
  5. monk

    monk Moderator

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    Shawn,
    D2 有Leica M 系列的外型,光看外型一貫的工藝水準,就令人想一親芳澤。
    您帥哥配名機,相得益彰。
    除了貴了一點,我想品質是應該有一定的水準。

    關於dust 問題,Olympus E1 是有清除CCD 上灰塵的功能,其他廠牌也可送回店家清除。

    D2 閃燈跳燈的功能還不錯,但一般只要買部可外接閃燈的相機即可做到。

    最近對Olympus 頗有好感,一樣是消費機這部Olympus C-808除了沒有Leica 俊美的外型,似乎還不錯。看dpreview 上評比,同級的其他廠牌似乎不是對手.... 但比之D2 ,連拍速度遜色很多。拍迷你豬可能有點慢。

    my two cents..
     
  6. Shawn

    Shawn Moderator

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    Dear Paul & monk,

    Thanks a lot!! 我會繼續努力做功課, 或許多找些網站上的資料確定我對所有攝影用專用術語都了解後再來做決定較好.

    說歸說, 怎麼Leica的魅力, 連我這外行人都頂不住?

    話說Canon 20D似乎可以外接不少各式各樣的lense, 包括Leica的M series. 我雖然不是很了這其中奧妙, 卻也覺得似乎是個不錯的idea. More to play with, hehehe.
     
  7. 掌門人

    掌門人 當代校長張超然

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    </font><blockquote>引言:</font><hr /> 說歸說, 怎麼Leica的魅力, 連我這外行人都頂不住?
    </font>[/QUOTE]除了 Leica 鏡頭出色和工藝一流外,Leica 在台灣本也被捧特別高。所以在類比相機時代,常會聽到類似 "Nikon 是相機中的王者;Leica 卻是上帝....",這類的話。

    我倒覺得若用品質和價格比的話,Leica 這類產品很難划算的 (不考慮品牌心理效應)。高階消費型 Shawn 可考慮上面 Monk 說的 Olympus、Canon 的 PowerShot 和 Nikon 8700。它們的價格都已接近入門的 DSLR,雖不能換鏡頭,但使用方便,也易攜帶。等拍出興趣後,再考慮 DSLR.....又是一條錢坑。其實消費型的輕巧等,到時還是有些用途的。
     
  8. 豬頭

    豬頭 New Member

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    </font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">他習慣選好景、架好相機,等待適當的時機按快門。決定瞬間大概是這意思。 </pre>[/QUOTE]這張啦..我不會貼圖

    看到monk大哥貼的這個真的喚起了我大一攝影實習的記憶,
    那次老師也是拿這張圖來說明決定的瞬間.....

    "一張攝影作品的好壞,在快門按下的那一刻就已經決定"......
    這是我在那堂課睡醒以後唯一記得的話...
     
  9. Paul_Yan

    Paul_Yan New Member

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    Alright folks,

    Here are some pictures I took of my friends:

    (*All photos were taken with my Nikon FM or Leica Minilux.
    Please forgive the inconsistency in sizes as these pics were scanned at different times.)

    Leaving Wongkok
    [​IMG]
    (A-Paul of "Beyond")

    Hey Mr. Tambourine Man Play A Song For Me
    [​IMG]
    (Bug of "Thirteen")

    Take A Walk On The Wild Side
    [​IMG]
    (Deserts)

    Think
    [​IMG]
    (Lin Chiang)

    And Also The Tree
    [​IMG]
    (Sky)

    Checking The Mix
    [​IMG]
    (Su-Ren)

    Good Vibration!
    [​IMG]
    (Su+Per Men)

    All Ears
    [​IMG]
    (Xiao Hu)
     
  10. Paul_Yan

    Paul_Yan New Member

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    Objects:

    Guardian Of The Stars
    [​IMG]
    "Every night, after the sun wonders away
    He dances himself into a trance
    Then throws out the crystal balls in his hands
    That become stars in the sky"

    Where Should We Go Now That...?
    [​IMG]
    (Kaohsiung Harbour)

    Heavenly Body
    [​IMG]
    (My coat)

    Look!
    [​IMG]
    (A scene from my bookshelf)

    In Session With John Lennon
    [​IMG]
    (Those Amsterdam postcards were Mr.72's)

    Black & White
    [​IMG]
    (Are You Experienced?)

    The Girl Is Mine
    [​IMG]
    (My shadow and my guitar cable. I was practicing bass one day...)

    The Archer: A Self-Portrait
    [​IMG]
     
  11. monk

    monk Moderator

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    讚!
    原來Paul 看到的世界是如此,these are good stuffs.. 我特別喜歡'the girl is mine" and "bookshelf"。

    Leica 的散景真有味道啊。
     
  12. Shawn

    Shawn Moderator

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    Hey Paul,

    Wonderful pictures, and I saw them in your photo album already...

    What exactly do you do with these photos? Did you develop them personally in your own dark room? Have you used any software to fine-tune your pics? I'd really love to know.

    I've been doing a lot of extensive research (which inevitably effected my work performance and has been rather draining, heheh), yet I can still not decide whether if DIGITAL is really the way I wanna go. Surely there are a lot of things to be desired in the digital realm, but when it comes down to QUALITY, there are still things digital cameras and software processing cannot match.

    BTW, that "tambourine man" photo reminds me of OASIS. Fluke or deliberate attempt?

    "Guardian of the stars" might be my favourite of them all, even though many others are really kool too, like the one taken at KS harbour.

    (最近開始有點走火入魔了...成天都想著這事. 畢竟錢難賺, 到底要怎麼投資是個很大的問題. 而且, 相積累的東西一買下去, 只怕又是個無底洞, 距離我另一個夢想(Minimoog Voyager)就更遙遙無期了...)
     
  13. hua

    hua New Member

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    照片很美, 意含很特別...葛格的腦袋很LSD(顏色夢幻又美麗)....

    不過我很好奇的是那張72's名信片, 沒有拍的很清楚, 內容很荒淫的感覺-_-...
     
  14. Mr72

    Mr72 Well-Known Member

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    哪裡有荒淫,,,不過是些"天堂"的真實描述........
    壹張是"24 hours in Amsterdam"...
    壹張是"What I really learned at school in Amsterdam "....

    我常從Amterdam 寄postcard 回台,,,
    否則大都忘了在那裡做過些啥???
     
  15. Paul_Yan

    Paul_Yan New Member

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    Thanks to all.

    Monk,
    I totally agree with you that the Leica lens really has its magic. (I'm not tempting you to the D2, Shawn.)

    Hua,
    LSD brain? Ha, I like that! Kind of kaleidoscopic, eh?

    "Picture yourself in a boat on a river
    With tangerine trees and marmalade skies
    Somebody calls you, you answer quite slowly
    A girl with kaleidoscope eyes
    Cellophane flowers of yellow and green
    Towering over your head
    Look for the girl with the sun in her eyes
    And She's gone...
    Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds!"

    [​IMG]
    ("LSD" by Julian Lennon)

    Shawn,
    No I don't have a dark room and don't have the expertise in developing and printing either.
    I just take the pics and have them processed by an ordinary consumer photo lab. I tell them to print the pics in 4"X6", in "normal" (EQ bypassed) mode. After seeing the 1st prints, I may have some worthy frames reprinted with a little adjustment in "Density" (bright/dark) and then scan the chosen pics into my computer with my cheap Epson scanner. Some images (and some don't!) may lose a little contrast after being scanned, so I use Photoshop to increse a little contrast in order to make the images on screen look as close to the original prints as possible. That's bassically what I do with my photos. It takes like 3~5 minutes to scan and fine-tune a pic. I do get tired of going back and forth to the photo lab though...a little too time consuming and troublesome in this "Age Of Convenience".

    "Guardian Of The Stars" was taken on black and white film under the sun. I told the lab to add a bit of "blue" in the machine-printing process....It's sort of "post-production". I've yet to see that one in real B+W print form though.

    Hmmm, analog or digital, that's the frigging question! I'd suggest getting a not-so-rich but good quality (acceptable to you, at least) digital camera to take advantage of the modern features (eg. instant viewabilaty and digital form for computer use) and have fun with picture-taking first and then see if you wanna get serious and go deeper into "the real thing", which has QUALITY. I wish you good luck finding your camera soon and, enjoy "painting with lights".

    The Tambourine Man thing was like 50% deliberate. I took that pic while the band was rehearsing. Bug was quite influenced by Oasis anyway. I just siad "Give me that Oasis look!" and pressed the shutter release.
     
  16. monk

    monk Moderator

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    昨天在愛河散步時拍的,小女還很乖的讓我正面按幾張。當下就開連拍功能,約30 張。挑能看的大家瞧瞧D70 的階調。

    畫面經過少許剪裁與銳化。 看液晶螢幕可能許多細節會喪失。

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Paul_Yan

    Paul_Yan New Member

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    Lovely!!!

    She's a beauty, Monk.
     
  18. hua

    hua New Member

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    小美女的表情真多:-D
    連拍居然有這麼多表情,真可愛...

    我記得我曾被連拍過一次,表情只有一個,被恥笑一番...
    反正就是有人拿DV拍我,我不知道以為是數位像機,結果我就一直看著鏡頭不動,表情也定住了,後來DV內容轉成DVD,就出現個滑稽的"定格表情"....
     
  19. Shawn

    Shawn Moderator

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    monk哥, 你女兒長大後男朋友方面的事可能你要頭疼了 ^皿^ 上面那幾張配的是什麼鏡頭?

    經過近來的research後, 我把重點放在bokeh上: 不過, 好像非DSLR機種這類的表現都不好(sensor area too small), 而DSLR配上鏡頭後, 還真是不便宜...

    (Leica的散景, 真的比較美...還是我看的不夠多??)
     
  20. monk

    monk Moderator

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    Shawn,
    it's a Nikkor 18~70mm F3.5-4.5. 約傳統的27-105mm,這顆是個G 鏡,數位機身專用。這range 還蠻方便的,只是光圈不夠大、廣角端變形嚴重。

    Bokeh 要美美的,真的用單眼比較容易達成。不過要萊卡的 Bokeh 是要開下去喔。

    還沒決定嗎?最近Canon 20D 即將上市,聽說市面上很多人拋售10D。也可撿便宜。

    另外,有些好鏡頭要比機身還貴。

    比性能的話,Canon 還是領先。看看奧林匹克100 m 決賽攝影師用啥牌: (白鏡大概都是Canon)click here!
     

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