有何差別?

本文由 aher2002-12-06 發表於 "錄音、音樂製作精華" 討論區


  1. aher

    aher Member

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    當音樂製作完成後,以CD RECORDER燒錄出來的CD成品,和壓片工廠壓出來的CD內容上有何差異?
    為何有些CD PLAYER不讀(會挑片)以CD RECORDER燒錄出來的CD成品?難道CD RECORDER燒錄出來的CD成品和壓片工廠壓出來的CD內容是有差異?
     
  2. Mr72

    Mr72 Well-Known Member

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    內容並無大不同,,,但製造方式,,成品品質,,,生產品管就差多了..........

    可參考之前的討論主題:
    主題: Mastering CD 的各種規格?

    realname 網友的留言提到白,紅,橘 ,,,各色規格....也許有幫助..............

    P.S.
    A "real"( or just say "traditional') industrial procedure for CD stamping,,,Let's just pick the most critical small part, "Glass Master Making",,,,,, go through like.....

    #1 Glass master preparation ready for laser beam recording........the 240 cm diameter 6mm thick glass master starts by stripping the old photo resist from its surface (since the glass blanks can be recycled). This is followed by cleaning and final washing using de-ionised water. The blank glass master is then dried carefully ready for the next stage.

    #2 Laser beam recording from the source CD or tape.......A Laser Beam Recorder (LBR) is used to expose the photoresist layer on the glass master where the final pits are required. This is carried out in a class 100 controlled environment using a high power gas laser from the premastered source audio or CD-ROM data.

    #3 Development & Metallisation ready for electroforming........The exposed photoresist surface is developed to remove the photoresist exposed by the laser, creating pits in the surface. These pits should extend right through the photoresist to the glass underneath to achieve good pit geometries as specified in the Red Book.

    #4 Electroforming making the stampers from the glass master.........Nickel fathers, mothers and stampers are created from the metallised glass master by electroforming in a class 1000 clean room environment.

    #5 Stamper finishing polishing and punching the stamper.......... Each stamper is checked visually, the back polished, it is punched to the required outside diameter, a hole accurately punched in the centre and finally it is checked on a stamper player before being fitted to the press.,,,,etc.

    Hey....!!.. easy ??,,,, isn't it ??....which you might think you are doing almost as good as the "PROs" do,,,,but,,you do it cheaper and less demanding on every thing,,,........Lucky us !!??,,,

    and that is the distinction in between,......I reckon,,,,
     
  3. sigma

    sigma New Member

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    </font><blockquote>引言:</font><hr /> CD RECORDER燒錄出來的CD成品,和壓片工廠壓出來的CD內容上有何差異? </font>[/QUOTE]既然是使用雷射讀取數據,差別就是在於反射,也就是材質,
    包括反射層的塗料,CD透明塑膠的材質.

    在壓片工廠刻模板機器上,可以讀的到數據在經過生產過程後的損失,
    如果控制的好,包括射出時間,溫度,濕度,材料多少等,
    損失會降到極小,所以白片(壓片工廠壓出來的CD)的品質是比CDR好.
    但是若碰到技術差的壓片工廠(盜版,成本極低,溫控不良),
    出來的成果一定比CDR還爛是毋庸置疑的.
     
  4. aher

    aher Member

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    有些CD PLAYER就是不讀CD RECORDER燒錄出來的片子,
    是否這樣的CD PLAYER會辨別所讀取CD之內容(TOC...種種參數...)而認定所讀取之CD並非CD工廠壓片?
     
  5. charmingguy

    charmingguy New Member

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    mr72不妨給我們講講錄音後的母帶成品到底是怎麽壓成cd目版的那?用了什麽樣的機器?
     
  6. Mr72

    Mr72 Well-Known Member

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    回aher
    </font><blockquote>引言:</font><hr /> 有些CD PLAYER就是不讀CD RECORDER燒錄出來的片子 </font>[/QUOTE]有些CD PLAYERS 的光學讀取要求較高,,一般自行燒錄的CD 片成品"未必"達得到"標準數據"的Red Book REF,..and 一般的燒錄機也無法real time monitoring QC report,,,,,,so,,,,,
    至於自行燒錄的品質和
    #1 空白片的品質
    #2 燒錄機的品質
    #3 燒錄程式的執行
    都有關悉,,,,且多半也是CD PLAYER reject 的原因...

    但要在CD PLAYER上的資料拾取做加密or解密的動作,,並非不可能,,,,,比如說加上一個 ISRC code 的掃描解密,那自行燒錄的再製就可能無法被讀,,,,Likes SACD,就算商業化的一種,,,or VCD,DVD,,,,,

    回Charmmingguy

    CD stamping 大概就如我上述一般,,...如果你指的是LBR的source,,,,一般我會試DDP Extrabyte,PMCD,PCM.all masters available,,,and pick the best initial or best two among them,,,,more or less like that,,,,
    and How to line up a CD Stamper to produce good quality CDs ?.....,,,,That is another stage of art,it covers more then merely audio,,,

    P.S.
    個人有個想法是,,,很多人以為Digital clone 是完美的類母體生殖,,,但我想很重要的是,,,,控制再製條件和標準的卻是有情緒的人,,,,,

    拿一幅名師真跡的畫作和一幅完美的複製品,,,你如何去說出兩者多不同or 多類似,,,,,,
    又即便是原版版畫但不同年代,不同刷的作品,,,,你又如何去判定價值??....

    也許CD Players 已經開始有個性,,,開始有審美,喜惡,,,

    數位時代指的是"數字"的應用 ,,,但卻偶而造成人們對"數字"的錯誤價值觀,,,(如音質越來越爛卻high bits ,high rate,,....or since the CD is cheaper,so does the music alike,)..重要的還是人怎麼想吧!!...
     
  7. aher

    aher Member

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    </font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;"> 一般自行燒錄的CD 片成品&quot;未必&quot;達得到&quot;標準數據&quot;的Red Book REF,..and 一般的燒錄機也無法real time monitoring QC report </pre>[/QUOTE]可不可能自行燒錄出"標準數據"的CD?(有特殊的燒錄體?)
     
  8. Mr72

    Mr72 Well-Known Member

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    回aher

    事實上,,,Red book (Audio CD)的spec 是非常不複雜的,,,
    理論上,不論Disc at once(DAO) or Tracks at once(TAO),都不是問題,,,當然"理論"上是沒問題的,,,,,但像你就發現了pratically un-true,,,,

    Some people have found brand xxxx CD-R units work well with media type yyyy, while other people with the same unit have had different results..... Recording a disc at 4x may make it unreadable on some drives, even though a disc recorded at 2x on the same drive works fine.

    To top it all off, someone observed that discs burned with one brand of CD-R weren't readable in cheap CD-ROM drives,,,, even though the same kind of media burned in a different device worked fine.

    The performance of any piece of media is always a "combination" of the "disc", "the drive that recorded it", and "the drive that reads it"............

    A number of specific discoveries have been posted to Usenet, but none of them are conclusive.,,,, Many people have reported that "Kenwood" CD players don't deal with CD-Rs very well,...... while "Alpine" units play nearly everything.!!...... However, things change as product lines evolve over time.....

    Sometimes the firmware can be at issue. In one specific case, a "Goldstar GCD580B" CD-ROM drive was able to read CD-Rs under Win95 but not MS-DOS 6.22. Upgrading the firmware from v1.01 to v1.24 solved the problem....

    If it fails with different kinds of media, the CD-ROM drive either doesn't like discs written with your recorder,...... or doesn't like CD-R media at all.!!...

    While there are stringent specifications for discs, there are no such specifications for CD players and CD-ROM drives. They just have to play the discs. If the disc and the drive are both marginal,,,,, you lose.,,,,

    Some final comments........ while there are clearly defined standards for CD-R media,..... there are no such standards for CD and CD-ROM drives!!......Other than that they be able to read CDs.,,,,,, It is possible for media to be within allowed tolerances, but be unreadable by a CD-ROM drive that can handle pressed discs without trouble.!!..... All you can do in this sort of situation is find a better-quality CD or CD-ROM drive, or switch to a brand of media whose characteristics are on the other side of the tolerance zone.

    Good Luck !!!..
     
  9. Mr72

    Mr72 Well-Known Member

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    </font><blockquote>引言:</font><hr /> "標準數據"的CD?</font>[/QUOTE]關於這個part,可能是我表達誤導了,,,,,我指的主要是 "Digital Audio Extraction"( .."DAE",.....,but nothing to do with the Mac ProTool's DAE folder,,,),的quality,,,,

    事實上,不同世代的CD clones audio聽起來不一樣,...和DAE有更密切的關悉,,,,(and "Gold Disc" doesn't help on DAE at all,,,,But they do help some "Hi End" masters.,,,.)

    BTW,,all the technologys mentioned above in this forum would NEVER work for making pirated copies,,,,

    再補一枚link :
    http://www.roxio.com/en/interest/music/aboutdae.jhtml
     
  10. aher

    aher Member

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    </font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;"> If it fails with different kinds of media, the CD-ROM drive either doesn't like discs written with your recorder,...... or doesn't like CD-R media at all.!!...

    </pre>[/QUOTE]那就是多嘗試以不同空白片、不同燒錄機進行燒錄,尋求最佳結果。
    謝謝大家的回應。
     
  11. Max

    Max New Member

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    我自己的經驗是這樣子,空白片好壞差很多,以前市面上常看到背面是金色的片子成果比blue的好。現在一堆空白片超低價的只能拿來燒資料,拿來燒音樂就常碰到機器不讀的。還有就是隨身聽或是早一點的 CD player也容易有不讀的情形,新就不會有。
     
  12. aher

    aher Member

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    引言</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;"> 一般的燒錄機也無法real time monitoring QC report,,,,,,so,,,,,</pre>[/QUOTE]我想這是一個很大的關鍵點。
     

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