Live Chat with Rupert Neve on line..23rd/OCT/02

本文由 Mr722002-10-08 發表於 "錄音、音樂製作精華" 討論區


  1. Mr72

    Mr72 Well-Known Member

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  2. Bill

    Bill New Member

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    Rupert Neve sir真的有那麼傳奇嗎?
    國外的二手樂器網站就常看到Neve的preamp,
    舊舊的也超貴,是真的好還是現在的廠都真的做不到那種聲音呢?
    還有國內為什麼很少人討論mic pre?
     
  3. Mr72

    Mr72 Well-Known Member

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    To Bill

    Neve 的傳奇,可能正來自於無法言傳,只能用聽覺體會,,,,,
    有些 out board gears,只要through it,聲音就更好聽....對我而言,NEVE 1272,1073,1081...or 2254 E & 2254 A compressors,,都是這類的名器....

    而現在的廠做不做的到??....我想他們的問題大多在"不瞭"怎麼做??,,or further,做出來的成品跟本沒法子有一樣的評價...以NEVE 後期的 VR 系列來說,,,there is nothing could compare with the " old NEVE" at all,,,

    Rupert 在 Forcusrite 也做了 only 3 consoles,,
    但他本人只承認那 only first 3 could named after a "NEVE"'s desks..而隨後在AMEK 的產品就離早期的'NEVE" 更更更更遠了,,,don't even dream about there is any in common between "9098" and "1081",,,,,,這也許是 old NEVE 在二手市場裡又貴又搶手的原因,,,畢竟會喜歡"NEVE"的buyers 在乎的是"NEVE Sound",,not just a "NEVE name" plate on the pannel,,,,,,,,


    A brief talk on Mic Pre

    Microphones put out small voltages; desks and outboard gear work at much higher voltages. A pre-amplifier is therefore needed between a microphone and a desk to turn the millivolts at the mic output (mic level) into volts for processing (line level).

    This simple task is absolutely central to the recording process. Any signal that passes through a microphone will be affected by the quality of the mic-pre that follows it, and any noise, distortion, or inaccuracy introduced to the sound at this point will become a permanent part of the signal.

    This is why the Great Leckie has compared a mic-pre to the lens in a camera, because all the flaws inherent in the lens become a permanent part of any image passing through it, no matter what processing you choose to do afterwards.

    High quality mic pre’s affect the performance of microphones very directly, and an ordinary mic through a top quality mic pre will sound better than a good mic through a poor mic pre.


    Solid state vs valve

    The usual generalisations apply. Transistors give a clean, even response, valves are more variable and respond differently at different gain levels, and can also produce mild distortions and harmonic enrichments that some people find pleasing. Variations within each type are wide and manufacturers have their own characteristics:
    Neve and API sound different though both solid state, and an EAR unit does not sound like a Telefunken v76. Horses for courses, select for your application.
     
  4. hua

    hua New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> 畢竟會喜歡"NEVE"的buyers 在乎的是"NEVE Sound",,not just a "NEVE name" plate on the pannel,,,,,,,, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>以前用過Amek system 9098 by Neve,應屬於前述後者,9098搭TLM103錄女聲聽來還不錯,沒想到有更古老更棒的機器,一定是以前老闆買不起,害我沒機會玩到老玩具-_-.......
     
  5. evan

    evan New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> 而現在的廠做不做的到??....我想他們的問題大多在"不瞭"怎麼做??,,or further,做出來的成品跟本沒法子有一樣的評價...以NEVE 後期的 VR 系列來說,,,there is nothing could compare with the " old NEVE" at all,,, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Mr72大的這個講法很困擾。以前我上過eBay網站,就有Neve的modular一片就要叫到美元$5-600多,更扯的是還很搶手,還不算電源器。我就不懂,不是就只是電路和電子零件嗎? 難到沒有人連copy都做的不對?對了,台灣的錄音室好一點的是不是也都有這種傳奇設備呢?
     
  6. Mr72

    Mr72 Well-Known Member

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    回 hua

    AMEK is a bit noisy, but O.K..9098 is fine.,,and "old NEVE" desk is like...."WA aaaaaaa!!.....


    回 Evan

    Copy is easy,,,but A cool clone is hard !!....

    我想這樣的事也不只是NEVE,,比如說Universal Audio 的re-issue 1176和 original Urei 1176 也沒得比,,,,LA2A reissue 和original 也有不同的聲音,,,,or like a re-issue model Neaumann U-67,or M-149 could NEVER sounds like a original U-67 or a legend M-49....別說你我不明白,連製造商都不明白...??但一般會覺得是部份原始元件已無法取得,,只能用替代品,,or 多數的再製原件品質已無法和original 相比,,,來解釋"一代不如一代"......but......who needs a explaination???......."Sound" is the major issue,,,"heard is believing,,",isn"t it ??

    台灣的old NEVE 據我所知都以 modular racks 存活,,且很少,,,數量最多的應是1272 Mic pre,,,,大多數遇見的都是V系列後的“近期“產品,,,,這類NEVE二手市場裡並不很搶手..... they are O.K.,,,,,,but I prefer "WAaaaa !!" myself ...
     
  7. Mr72

    Mr72 Well-Known Member

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  8. 掌門人

    掌門人 當代校長張超然

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    感謝 Mr72 提供的 Neve history 連結。以前我沒有上那個站,沒想到還不少東西。很可惜是 UK 的 dealer。我看過有些小公司有做 1U 的 rack,上面已有 power supply,專門用來裝兩個 Neve 的 modulars。我猜二手市場上搶手否應該也和當時的總出貨量有關吧。

    對了, Mr 72 對於數位的 mic 看法如何?其實很多年前就有人這樣做,但一直到現在才變得多一些。又可以省掉外接 mic preamp 的方式,這樣的 idea 還不錯。
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> 台灣的old NEVE 據我所知都以 modular racks 存活,,且很少,,,數量最多的應是1272 Mic pre,,,,大多數遇見的都是V系列後的“近期“產品,,,,這類NEVE二手市場裡並不很搶手 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
     
  9. Mr72

    Mr72 Well-Known Member

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    所有的數位音聲的前,後,,...Amp都是major issue,,,,你指的數位MIC,,,我覺得像是Mic +Micpre+A/D convertor 的 package products 吧?.....我好像只有"分別"的想法耶.....

    我個人是"classical NEVE"的信徒,,,比較在乎的是不是喜歡聽到的聲音,,,倒不太追根究底去明白原因,,...學理是用來幫助創作一直是我的大原則.......其實不管對sampling rate,Amps,Psycho Acoustic,,,or "NEVE",,.....看看這篇線上聊天,也許會有新想法,,,...... "what we do is beyond ourselves. Perhaps another way of putting it is that we strive, strive, strive knowing that we will never reach the state of perfection in our designs."
    http://www.prosoundweb.com/chat_psw/transcripts/rupert.shtml
     
  10. Mr72

    Mr72 Well-Known Member

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    以Neumann Solution D,來說,Mic's capsule (K-07 30mm)transducer part 並無特別不同,不過是加上一個把mV/pa converts to digital datas 的"特製A/D"(28 bits,sampling rate up to 96K,dynamic range 大於130 dB),,,...but which is the better expressing(or transducing) way while aero torrent reach diaphragm ?? which is closer to the real diaphragm reacts ??analogue or digital ?? do we have to push the sound processing further into this earlier stage ?? ,,,,,,so..

    however,an FPGA (Field Programmable Gate Array) built into the microphone means that parameters such as polar pattern, pre-attenuation, low-cut, pre-amplification and various switching functions can be realized digitally and remote controlled.

    個人認為remote part 對installed system(theatre alike...) 有幫助,,但把A/D part 放入黑盒子對追求"聲音"的細部訴求或analogue processing applying反而是限制or 簡化...

    beyer 的MCD-100,sampling rate up to 48 K only,,,屬於中階同質產品........

    以這類所謂digtal mics,我還是會分別就Mic,amp.A/D.這些 parts 去解讀分析......

    P.S.
    Since the promoter for L.A. trip is a Chinese Co.,,,Funny how,It comes up with a thought that L.A. is even more like mainland China while comparing to H.K. & Taiwan in certain prospects....

    the other wierd thing is the "Japanese tour group" do arrange the "GuitarCenter ,Sunset" as a regular sightseeing spot,so every few qualter mins,a bunnch of Japs rushing in and out of the shop,,,...

    "The Highlands" club in Kodak theatre is pretty cool !!,,,,,that is more or less what I had found in this trips,,,,

    oh !!,,,,one more thing,I did broke quite a few the local union rule according to the stagehands within the concert,,They told me I had done 6 man's job by only myself,which is considered would piss the union's chief a lot,......unfortunately,,I am a alien labor,,I don't give a damn !!
     
  11. 掌門人

    掌門人 當代校長張超然

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    To:Mr72
    我指的是 AD 在 Mic 裡,直接數位輸出到 AES input 的錄音,和 AD 在 external mic preamp 上/後,是不一樣的設計。Neumann 和 Beyer 都有如此的研發。

    PS:西岸演唱之行如何?我們還在等趣聞。下回到東岸記得聯絡聯絡。
     

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