這種東西在哪裡買阿?!這樣琴就可以方便自己調整了..

本文由 blueguy10252005-03-01 發表於 "吉他" 討論區

  1. blueguy1025

    blueguy1025 New Member

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  2. bad cat

    bad cat Active Member

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    我覺得沒有那個的必要性耶
    指板弧度又沒辦法調
    拾音器的磁石高度也不一定順著指板弧度是最好的
    依照自己的喜好調整就行了
     
  3. soul_aso

    soul_aso New Member

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    我覺得那紙卡因該不是那樣用的八~
    調pickup那的原因因該是六條弦音量大小不平均
    用那紙卡那樣調我個人是覺得好像不對勒??
     
  4. hgpo

    hgpo Member

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    之前台中某位老師告訴我,
    雙線圈上的6顆螺絲不能亂轉,轉了tone就毀了,
    聲音會怪怪的,而且調不回來.
    調琴還是交給專門的老師弄吧,
    有些師傅真的很厲害.調完琴整體感覺都不一樣.
     
    Last edited: 2005-03-02
  5. 爬格子

    爬格子 New Member

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    "轉了tone就毀了" 還蠻誇張的
     
  6. 海豚

    海豚 Member

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    要轉到整各螺紋崩牙了~~才會毀吧!
    只是動了那邊!
    聲音一定不一樣!
    調TOEN當然就要動那邊!
    我是覺得名師喜歡的聲音不見的才~是你要的!
    不過~~前提是你要分辨的出來你要的聲音!
     
  7. hgpo

    hgpo Member

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    如果堅持要動到雙線圈上的6顆螺絲,
    我想世界上也沒有一個人會阻止你的,
    就我所知,雙線圈的6顆螺絲高度是製作時由儀器測量出來的數值決定的,
    不是你愛轉多高就轉多高.
    (上述如有誤,請指正,謝謝)
     
    Last edited: 2005-03-02
  8. Paul_Yan

    Paul_Yan New Member

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    (*Sorry, Can't type Chinese.)

    The "fingerboard radius gauge card" is for measuring the radius of your fingerboard and bridge saddles.

    [​IMG]

    But, you can't adjust your pickup's polepieces according to it! It's just WRONG!!!
    [​IMG]
    The pickup's polepieces may form an arc that's identical to the fingerboard's radius but they would not be in the correct positions for each string. This will make some strings louder/softer than the others and the result is poor volume balance across the strings. USE YOUR EARS to do the adjustment, not the card!

    If you really have to get radius gauges, you can get them from www.stewmac.com (http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Frettin...t,_fingerboard_preparation/Radius_Gauges.html)
    [​IMG]
    The provided radius specs are 7.25", 9.5", 10", 12", 14", 15", 16" and 20". They are made of stainless steel for "long life'.

    "之前台中某位老師告訴我,
    雙線圈上的螺絲不能亂轉,轉了tone就毀了,
    聲音會怪怪的,而且調不回來."

    In my very humble opinion, that's total bullshit and an indication of that teacher's absolute ignorance. (I don't mean to sound harsh and arrogant, I'm just stating the truth.)

    Of course the "polepieces" (the screws in the pickups) could be turned to achieve optimal volume balance across the strings.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    "雙線圈的6顆螺絲高度是製作時由儀器測量出來的數值決定的,
    不是你愛轉多高就轉多高."

    The specification of the polepieces' heights at the factory is done with the strings that are used on the new guitars. For example, Gibson uses Gibson strings and Fender uses Fender strings. What if you buy a new Ernie Ball, Dean Markley or D'Addario strings that are of different gauges (eg. 010~046 or 012~052) to the original ones? Let's say you have a new Les Paul guitar and you put on a set of Ernie Ball 010~046 set to replace the original Gibson strings. It's very possible that the string volume balance would be different, causing some strings to be noticeably louder than the others. So what do you do to gain perfect volume balance across the strings? You adjust the polepieces!!! If a string is less loud than the others, just turn the screw underneath it COUNTERCLOCKWISE to get it closer to that string. If a certain string is louder than the others, turn its corresponding polepiece CLOCKWISE. Plain and simple. Polepieces are just like microphones---get the mic up close to your mouth if your voice is not loud. However, you don't wanna get it too close to make your voice sound muddy, boomy, poppy or distorted.

    [​IMG]

    The rule of thumb is: Do it when the strings are in tune and don't let the distance between the polepieces and the strings get less than 1/8 inch (=3.175 mm) when you press the strings at the last fret. If you get the polepieces to be too close to the strings, the magnetic flux of the pickup will pull the strings and cause poor intonation (pitch correction at the 12th fret) and also kill the sustain of the stings.

    With these pickups that have no adjustable polepieces, you can only adjust the 2 screws on both sides to get a rough, not-so-precise-and-perfect volume balance across the strings.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: 2005-03-06
  9. 海豚

    海豚 Member

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    看不太懂ㄟ!
    是指可以調整還是不行阿!
     
  10. Shawn

    Shawn Moderator

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    簡單講, Paul的意思是說:

    可以調.但是你要先知道你在幹什麼.

    看不懂的英文可能還是要自己去鑽研一下才好, 日後自己找資料也才準確些, 否則很容易會被跟自己一樣不懂的所謂"老師"呼巄; 這年頭"老師"越來越多了, 怪不得一天到晚都被人問候...
     
  11. hijack

    hijack New Member

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    他的意思應該是,
    那六顆ploepieces是類似麥克風的功能,
    當你換了不是原廠型號的琴弦之後,可能導致接收到的聲音大小會改變,
    你就可以調整這幾顆ploepieces直到聲音跟換弦之前一樣大,
    聲音不夠大就調近些,太大就調遠些,但是不可以調太近,
    調太近可能會吸到弦導致延音不足,
    而那些沒有polepieces的拾音器可以藉由兩旁的螺絲調整高低.
    應該就是這樣吧....有失誤請指正.
    不過到底能不能自己調整,我想還是請板大來解釋吧.
     
  12. Paul_Yan

    Paul_Yan New Member

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    Shawn,
    Amen!!!
    Language ability is really the door to perception.

    Hijack,
    Thank you very much for the very correct translation/summary.
     
  13. hijack

    hijack New Member

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    沒什麼啦,我們才要感謝你撥冗告訴我們這麼多知識..謝謝啦.
    有問題再請教你囉...^^
     
  14. soul_aso

    soul_aso New Member

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    耶~被我猜對了耶~哈哈
     
  15. Recto

    Recto New Member

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  16. Paul_Yan

    Paul_Yan New Member

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    Hi Recto,

    Welcome aboard. I'm glad that you finally chimed in on the issue of adjusting pickup polepieces. Hopefully this is going to be a positive, constructive discussion instead of an emotional rant like what you wrote on your web page.

    First, let me assure you that I'm with you on the opinion that the polepieces CAN be adjusted. If the guitar and pickup manufacturers didn't want people to adjust them, we would see fixed slugs, instead of adjustable screrws (Philips or Allan hex slotted), in the pickups. I believe that we both agree on that.

    You wrote on your website---"...according to it?? according to WHO?? Who told you the polepieces can't be adjusted? I wanna know who say that? are you just basic on some theory you read from internet? Or you just thought it by your self?"---

    Hey take it easy, my friend. You were showing some unnecessary anger there. Nobody was attacking you. It was pure technical discussion. Please read my post again and tell me where I said you "COULD NOT" adjust the polepieces whatsoever! Was it your way of distorting other people's writing in service for your argument? I believe I didn't say anything to the effect of "you CAN'T adjust the polepieces". I clearly stated that they COULD be adjusted and even explained how it could be done by the average palyer. When I said "You can't adjust your pickup's polepieces according to it!" Very apparently I was referring 'it' to the radius gauge card in your pic, not any "WHO". I thought my written English was easy enough to comprehend... Judging from the manner you wrote on your web page, don't you think you were over-reacting a bit? (By the way, I believe you wanted to say: "Who told you the polepieces couldn't be adjusted? I wanna know who said that. Were you based on some theory you had read from the internet? Or you just thought it up by yourself?" As you live in Vancouver, Canada, a mostly English speaking country, I sincerely encourage you, for your benefit, to work a little harder on your English to survive better. I also suggest you use the words "string/pickup height" to replace the words "string/pickup high" in your advertisement so that your English speaking potential customers can really understand what you're saying. Better still, find someone who can write "real" English to pen the advertisement for you before you make any progresses on the language. I'd be more than happy to help you should you want to re-write it by yourself.)

    What led you to assume that "I thought it up myself"? Ha! I was not that 'creative', at least not in that department which requires some understanding of physics, a fair amount of hands-on setup experiences and on-the-spot pickup adjustments I did for players who did not have a clue during recording sessions (I'm a recording/mixing engineer by trade). And no, I didn't acquire my setup knowledge from the internet, not even 10% of what I know. I got it, long before the internet was popular, from publications, magazines, manuals and books including "Guitar Player Repair Guide" by Mr. Dan Erlewine (mind you, it's Erlewine, not Elewine), and "Basic Pickup Winding and Complete Guide to Making Your Own Pickup Winder," by Jason Lollar who I'm sure you've heard of.

    Alright, back to the matter of adjusting the polepieces to the curve of the radius gauge. The radius gauge is certainly a good starting point for setting the height of each polepiece, however, aligning the top of polepieces to the radius curve certainly doesn't guarantee that you'll gain perfect volume balance across the strings, if one has the ears to tell, which I believe you do. In my very humble opinion (again, I didn't "think this up myself"), you still have to fine-adjust the polepieces according to the individual string gauges and sonic characters and the player's technique...the resultant curve formed by the polepieces wouldn't, most of the time, match the radius gauge 100%. As you know, the volume balance of a set of strings made by brand A may be distinctively different from a set of identical gauge made by Brand B, not to mention a 10-13-17-26-36-46 set being very different from a 10-14-20-28-40-50 set made by the same manufacturer. (Ernie Ball makes string sets in both these 2 specs.) A wound G string also sounds very different, in tone and volume, from a plain G string. Things will get even more complicated when you take into account the discrepancies of playing styles by different players (your clients, that is)---I believe you've seen/heard players who attack the strings 4~6 with more force and also players who do just the opposite. With that in mind, common sense tells us that polepieces positioned precisely following the fingerboard/saddle radius can't give you perfect volume balance across the strings. Just like different relief/action setups for each individual's need (some like a big neck relief while some like an absolutely straight neck; some like high string action while some like it low. A setup "by the book" might not suit a certain player), different players need different curves on the polepieces, which might all look like they're following the fingerboard radius at a glance. The radius gauge can only be the reference for a starting point but definitely not the "end all" solution.

    No one's doubting your knowledge and ability on guitar and pickup setups. In fact, I think you're one of the few in the Chinese population who have a grip on the subject. I linked the "Radius gauge on pickup" pic of yours above to warn those who did not have a clear understanding of the radius aspect. And of course, like you and Phil Jones, I certainly don't think the polepieces in "neat, straight lines going at right angles to the strings" positions in the Gibson pickup pics I posted above could give you good string volume balance...they just looked good in a uniform way. The sole purpose of the pics I posted above was to show people that they COULD be adjusted since they had the (-) Philip slots in them.

    Finally, for your information, the 12th fret note is called "八度音" since it's an octave (8 degrees) higher to the open string note. The "12度音" of an open E note would be the B note on the 19th fret.

    I look forward to more of your valuable posts and arriving at the ultimate truth through healthy discussions.

    Have a nice day.
     
    Last edited: 2005-03-08
  17. Shawn

    Shawn Moderator

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    Recto;

    你可能英文要再加強了.

    這一句: "But, you can't adjust your pickup's polepieces according to it! It's just WRONG!!!"裡面的"並不是指任何人或者是任何出處, 而是finger board radius. 這裡的it的用法有點像是: "I might be a total ass but I can't help it".

    這個"according"也不是像中文翻譯機裡的解釋一樣叫做"根據". 較好的解釋在這媟|是"依照": 別只是依照fingerboard radius來調polepieces.







     
  18. cuckoowho

    cuckoowho New Member

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    Hello Guys! There is a misunderstanding here......
    What Recto is trying to illustrate.....because the neck has an arc...which means that the distance between the neck and string is different for each string. The easier and more likely adjustment is to matching these distance when setting up the pick-ups. This somehow makes sense to me....( but I know shit....)

    However, Paul_Yan was trying to tell Recto that it's not entirely true....because there are personal preferences (habits) involved....so taking that into consideration .....there is no "rule"..... If you do want to set-up to some kind of "standard".....there is acutally another guage you should use.....

    So You CAN adjust the polepiece.......to your preference.....
    As for me....I like mine matching some kind of standard.......like Recto said...

    Well.....gentleman....don't attack each other.......because I learned so much from both of you.........


    By the way.....please don't attack anybody's language ability......that has nothing to do with what we talk about here.....and that can really hurt the purpose of this discussion.....(I am not white....I am a banana) and no one speak perfect English anyway.....it only makes you look like a wannabe asshole.

    Rock-on!!
     
  19. cuckoowho

    cuckoowho New Member

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    Just one more thought guys:

    The distances between fingerboard to each strings is different because of the arc....which means the volume differs also due to the distance...(I am trying really hard this time to explain myself)...



    When the string is closer to the fingerboard....so should the pick-up be adjusted further away from the string...(that makes sense to me)....because the string is closer to the "tangent distance" to the pick-up (hence, louder..)



    Therefore, I said in my previous message that I prefer the way how Recto setting up the polepieces...



    If there is no other "standard gauge" available to adjust the polepieces.....then....

    Seriously, Paul....what's wrong with using the "fingerboard arc gauge" adjusting the polepieces ?

    (sorry...if I am making an idiotic comment.....I actually know nothing about it)
     
  20. hua

    hua New Member

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    上面好像寫的蠻清楚的, 我這個門外漢都看的懂, (老實說我英文也沒太好), 沒有什麼wrong的, 只是要看狀況吧, 琴的狀況, 彈琴的人的狀況...

    呵呵...踩地雷, 人人有機會, 從掌門, 版主, 到資深網友, 能夠交流說清楚當然是最好囉...
     

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